D.6.b. Lighthouse without red button

Discussions à propos des règles applicables en 2020 pour tous les concours EurobotOPEN et EurobotOPEN Junior
Discussions about 2020 Rules for all EurobotOPEN and EurobotOPEN Junior contests.
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testerR59
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri 29 Nov 2019, 18:27

D.6.b. Lighthouse without red button

Post by testerR59 » Sat 30 Nov 2019, 01:25

Hello

I want to create lighthouse without red button (Eurobot Open).
So, as I understand from the rules, I should not use self-made electrical devices.

--------------------------------------------------

The question is whether the following options are allowed:

1) Lift up:
- mechanical springs
- gas springs
- block and tackle system with load

2) Sweep/rotate:
- commercially available rotating platform on low voltage batteries (AA, AAA, C, D etc)
- twisted rope with light source hanging on it

3) Light source:
- commercially available light source on low voltage batteries (AA, AAA, C, D etc)
- open fire (candle, gas lighter)
- chemical light (phosphorescent things)
- radioactive light (radium, tritium)
- reflected light (cataphote)
- picture of light source (Image)

--------------------------------------------------

Also rules says:
Once the lighthouse is activated, it must deploy and turn on a sweeping light source to signal the rocky area.
Is it allowed to start light emission and start rotating light source before start of the match?
And once the lighthouse is activated, it just deploy vertically.

Or I must turn on and rotate light source _ONLY_AFTER_ activation?

--------------------------------------------------

And last question:

D.6.b. Constraints says: "Maximum depth: 222 mm"
But
J.1.b. ROCKY AREA AND LIGHTHOUSE drawing show rocky area width as "200 mm"

Is it permissible to place a lighthouse above the table border or not?

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testerR59
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri 29 Nov 2019, 18:27

Re: D.6.b. Lighthouse without red button

Post by testerR59 » Sun 01 Dec 2019, 23:09

Actually, I want to use something like this or that as rotating light source.
And to lift it up with mechanical construction and gas spring like this one.

Is it permissible by the rules to use such items (without modification)?
Last edited by testerR59 on Mon 02 Dec 2019, 20:55, edited 1 time in total.

Riako
Posts: 90
Joined: Tue 05 May 2015, 18:07

Re: D.6.b. Lighthouse without red button

Post by Riako » Mon 02 Dec 2019, 12:51

Hi testerR59, and welcome,

I will try to answer most of your questions now, but keep in mind that only referees (purple tag) give official answers.
testerR59 wrote:
Sat 30 Nov 2019, 01:25
I want to create lighthouse without red button (Eurobot Open).
So, as I understand from the rules, I should not use self-made electrical devices.
Not sure if it is possible to do it without emergency switch as long as you have one or more electrical power source (https://www.planete-sciences.org/forums ... 71#p167569). Even if most of your system is mechanical (deployment), you should have an emergency switch for the light, even if it is "safe".
You can also use the emergency switch as the main power switch of your system (but I do not know if the light source must been turned down before the start of the match).
testerR59 wrote:
Sat 30 Nov 2019, 01:25
1) Lift up:
- mechanical springs
- gas springs
- block and tackle system with load
Rules specify that liquids are not allowed, but as the product you showed is a commercial one and enclosed, it might be possible to use it, wait the official answer.
Other mechanical solutions are allowed as long as they are not dangerous and stay in the given dimension limits.
testerR59 wrote:
Sat 30 Nov 2019, 01:25
2) Sweep/rotate:
- commercially available rotating platform on low voltage batteries (AA, AAA, C, D etc)
- twisted rope with light source hanging on it
Keep in mind that the light should be in rotation until the end of the match (even after if you want to avoid confusion). I am not sure a twisted rope that you will release is enough/reliable, but that is my opinion.
testerR59 wrote:
Sat 30 Nov 2019, 01:25
3) Light source:
- commercially available light source on low voltage batteries (AA, AAA, C, D etc)
- open fire (candle, gas lighter)
- chemical light (phosphorescent things)
- radioactive light (radium, tritium)
- reflected light (cataphote)
- picture of light source
Open fire are not allowed for security reasons. This is the same for chemicals or pyrotechnic elements.
I think that a chemical/radioactive lamp can be allowed if its a commercial and perfectly enclosed product, but wait an official answer for this one.
You can use a reflector for the spreading/rotation of the light (it means you need a static source somewhere else).
A picture is not a light source :lol:
testerR59 wrote:
Sat 30 Nov 2019, 01:25
Is it permissible to place a lighthouse above the table border or not?
Yes, you can use the border.

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testerR59
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri 29 Nov 2019, 18:27

Re: D.6.b. Lighthouse without red button

Post by testerR59 » Mon 02 Dec 2019, 20:37

Thank you for your answer, Riako.

I read several topics and found this answer.
Refereeing referent replied that the button is needed if there is any electricity.

I'm trying to imagine a non-electric light source of sufficient brightness.

clementINSAStras
Posts: 9
Joined: Thu 26 Sep 2019, 17:18

Re: D.6.b. Lighthouse without red button

Post by clementINSAStras » Mon 02 Dec 2019, 21:31

You could use lenses and mirror and have the light elsewhere, in the robot for exemple or even the from the spot above the table (but harder)
And if you are good with focused light you could create the rotation with the movement of the outside light.

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testerR59
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri 29 Nov 2019, 18:27

Re: D.6.b. Lighthouse without red button

Post by testerR59 » Mon 02 Dec 2019, 22:00

This is interesting cheat, clementINSAStras.
If we can't use electric energy in lighthouse, we will transmit it there from another place in another form.

Must we place a red button in the fixed beacons or central tracking device?
Is it permissible by rules to use these places for such purposes?

It might be easier to make a red button on the lighthouse :-?
I want to remove red button to simplify the solution.

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Refereeing referent
PMI
Posts: 913
Joined: Thu 23 Oct 2008, 10:10

Re: D.6.b. Lighthouse without red button

Post by Refereeing referent » Tue 03 Dec 2019, 20:22

Hi,
testerR59 wrote:
Sat 30 Nov 2019, 01:25
I want to create lighthouse without red button (Eurobot Open).
So, as I understand from the rules, I should not use self-made electrical devices.
An emergency stop button should be used is the lighthouse contains a power supply, even if you use a commercial solution.
testerR59 wrote:
Sat 30 Nov 2019, 01:25
The question is whether the following options are allowed:

1) Lift up:
- mechanical springs
- gas springs
- block and tackle system with load
You are allowed to use any of the three soutions as long as it respects the general safety rules and do not endanger anyone. If using the gas spring, make sure to use a non-hazardous gas such as air.
testerR59 wrote:
Sat 30 Nov 2019, 01:25
2) Sweep/rotate:
- commercially available rotating platform on low voltage batteries (AA, AAA, C, D etc)
- twisted rope with light source hanging on it
You can use both.
testerR59 wrote:
Sat 30 Nov 2019, 01:25
3) Light source:
- commercially available light source on low voltage batteries (AA, AAA, C, D etc)
- open fire (candle, gas lighter)
- chemical light (phosphorescent things)
- radioactive light (radium, tritium)
- reflected light (cataphote)
- picture of light source (Image)
For safety reasons, the use of dangerous products and pyrotechnic is prohibited. This means no fire or radioactive light. Commercially available solutions and reflected light can do the trick as long as they respect all the constraints.
testerR59 wrote:
Sat 30 Nov 2019, 01:25
Also rules says:
Once the lighthouse is activated, it must deploy and turn on a sweeping light source to signal the rocky area.
Is it allowed to start light emission and start rotating light source before start of the match?
And once the lighthouse is activated, it just deploy vertically.

Or I must turn on and rotate light source _ONLY_AFTER_ activation?
The light source should be activated after the activation of the lighthouse.
testerR59 wrote:
Sat 30 Nov 2019, 01:25
And last question:

D.6.b. Constraints says: "Maximum depth: 222 mm"
But
J.1.b. ROCKY AREA AND LIGHTHOUSE drawing show rocky area width as "200 mm"

Is it permissible to place a lighthouse above the table border or not?
The border is included in the rocky area
Référent de la commission arbitrage Eurobot / Bénévole Planète Sciences
Eurobot Refereeing Committee Referent / Planete Sciences volunteer

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